Victoria Pena
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Marie: Now, on to today's [00:01:00] episode.
Grab a cup of coffee. Settle in and let's get started.
Erika: Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. Today we are here with Victoria of Rooted Mama Therapy, and so we are going to turn it over to her to talk about her practice and her work. Thank you so much for having me here.
Victoria: Thank you. I'm excited to be here with both of you and talk a little bit more about what I do, but also get into the topic of gentle parenting because it's one of my favorite things to talk about lately.
But, um, yeah, thank you for having me. Um, I started my practice early last year, 2004. Um, it's a solo practice for now, so it's still, kind of coming up on unstable legs. Um, but I knew since I was in grad school that I [00:02:00] wanted to have my own practice just for the first few years as a licensed practitioner, I've been getting my feet wet and exploring the field and figuring out what kind of client that I really like working with.
And it's moms. Yeah. They might, I hate to say the word favorite, but they are my favorite kind of client to work with. I just really feel a strong connection and really vibe with my mom clients. And as a mom myself to become a mom for time in 2020, my little pandemic baby. Yeah. So I also really relate on a personal level with moms and I noticed.
Uh, like a common thread with a lot of the moms that I was working with was this, um, general anxiety about motherhood and wanting to do things differently from generations before, but just not really knowing how to do that. The name itself, Rooted Mama Therapy, comes from the idea of wanting to help my clients really come into the core of themselves and feeling really grounded and [00:03:00] strong and rooted in themselves as a mom so that they can raise really strong resilient kids for themselves too and know that the that the shift that they're deciding to make that's different from what they grew up with is exactly where they want to go and they know exactly what direction they want to take it in with their family.
I love that.
Marie: Me too. I think when you had mentioned earlier that, you know, the, as a mommy, I mean, I, the first fight, it put an emotion out there was anxiety. The minute I found out I was pregnant, I'm like, what do I do now? It doesn't come with a handbook. I mean, I mean, if you don't have younger siblings or anything, I don't, I didn't know what to do with the baby and what to do and what to expect.
I think we still, I'm still learning as my, I have teenagers now, but I'm still learning what to do. So having someone who, I mean. That would help you through that because it's not something that people talked about. You're just supposed to know, they'd assume you're, you're a mother. You should know what to do, how to parent your children.
And yeah, no, things change like the way we were [00:04:00] parented is not the same as how we parent our children because there's technology, there's a lot more things that have happened in the world than when we were kids.
Victoria: And you might have a strong support system and a really solid tribe that you love to me.
But, maybe some of the advice that you're given doesn't totally resonate. So, that still leaves the mom feeling a little bit lost or misguided in how they want to do things differently. Like you said, in today's world. That's the, the gap that I'm trying to help fill in a supportive way for my clients.
Erika: That's great.
Victoria: Yeah.
Erika: And today we're going to talk about gentle parenting, like you mentioned. And even before you got here, Marie and I were like, we hear people say gentle parenting. We hear what examples of that is. And like, if you look on the social media, I feel like it looks like just letting your kids kind of do whatever.
Sometimes. Right? And I know that's not what it is. And so I'm just so curious, like to learn more about it.
Victoria: Yeah. And I'm glad that you mentioned that [00:05:00] too, because that is the misconception that I see also that I made a face. I was like, um,
Marie: I don't know, cause I've seen this wild child running around the room.
Yeah.
Victoria: It's not about being gentle with them to the point where they're kind of like running rampant and you put no boundaries, no guidelines, no guardrails on their existence. Um, that's actually called permissive parenting, which is a whole other topic, but. Gentle parenting is really more about strengthening their understanding and connection with their own emotions by modeling how you Interact with your own emotions.
Marie: Okay, okay,
Victoria: so Building that that connection with their emotions so that they know how to more appropriately cope with their especially negative or unpleasant emotion Cope with those unpleasant emotions or really difficult times that they face in life Uh, in a more grounded and, uh, centered way so that they're not bottling things in or they're [00:06:00] not, uh, dismissing themselves or feeling minimized or having negative.
I don't know if y'all experienced this when you grow, when you were growing up, but you ever heard from parents or, or guardians like. Just get over it. Yes. I still hear that from my parents
Erika: and guardians.
Victoria: Yes. Yeah. Just get over it. It's not that bad. Not a big deal. You're making it a big deal. I mean, I grew up in,
Marie: maybe it was culturally or just the age.
I'm a little older than both of you. But my, my mom, it was more you're seen, not heard. And I could not keep my mouth shut to save my life. I couldn't, if I had something to say, I needed to say it, I couldn't stop it. But it wasn't being disrespectful. I never, I loved my parents. But sometimes the way they would tell me to do things, my brain didn't understand it, I guess.
So I would do it differently, but I had a reason. I always had a reason for something. Like why I didn't do exactly how I was told. And that was just not permissible in my household. Like, no, like it was, they get very upset. Like, but, and I, and, and when you [00:07:00] try to explain it, how I felt or how I saw things or what I was doing, it was in, that was not okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Erika: Or like if you're like feeling, like my parents, really my mom specifically, she doesn't listen to this. So, um, really my mom specifically, like I would, if I would be like sad about something or like upset, it was always like, But your life is good. Like, you know. Oh yes, yes. Look how good your life is.
And I get, like I get it she's trying to like overcorrect the other way to like be like everything's okay. It's a way of saying that everything really is okay, but it's a very, like. Dismissive way of saying it, but it's a whole there's kids starving
Marie: somewhere. Like it was always like, you know, dinner It's always worse somewhere else or you're ungrateful.
Yes, right. Yes. Yeah
Victoria: Yeah, exactly So it like you said you hit it on the on the nail in the head when saying that um, it's dismissive So it could be coming from a good place. I'm trying to help my child move past that emotions, but they can be happy again But there's not [00:08:00] enough space given for their child to actually deal with that emotion.
That's very normal and unavoidable, all of the emotions. There's nothing bad or wrong with emotions. Um, but when we are given that as the example growing up, that's what we start doing to ourselves as adults. Yeah. And then when we have kids, we kind of like repeat the same playbook.
Erika: Yes. And
Victoria: that's how generational patterns start to change.
Yes,
Erika: and I hate that, but I catch myself doing that same thing. Like, I have a 13 year old, we have three daughters, so there's a lot of emotions happening. Yes. At all times. But we have one that just turned 13 and she is going through the times of just like crying at the drop of a hat. I mean, you know, it's the hormones and the different things that are happening and like she'll be crying and I'm like, why are you doing that?
Why are you crying? And she's like, I don't know, like she can't explain it. And I'm like, stop.
Marie: If boys are the opposite. I see myself do it. The boys are the opposite. They just get mad. I'm like, why are you mad? Like, I'm not yelling. Why are you upset? Check yourself and I needed them and there's a there's typically a reason but I try to [00:09:00] listen But maybe you can tell us how to do it the right way Yeah, please, I would love that Every time I do it I
Erika: feel so guilty and then I'm like laying in bed thinking like oh my gosh You're horrible like you said that thing like she should be able to cry if she wants, you know Then I'm like turning it on myself.
Yeah.
Victoria: Well, first of all, try not to be too hard on yourself for having that That internal reaction because I get it too. I have a four year old So she's kind of like a teenager. In a little body. And I see it in myself also. Where sometimes I'm like, I do so About this thing. To us as adults, it's not a big deal.
Of course. But to them, it is. Because it's the first time in their life they're experiencing whatever it is. Making them emotional or their bodies are growing. So there's just a lot of Hormones all the stuffs all of the things so it makes sense, but initially we see that and we're like just stop, you know There's too much going on right now or like your mom used to say life is great Like there's no room for that kind of emotion here,
Erika: right?[00:10:00]
Victoria: Don't beat yourself up about having that initial reaction because if you are the first to try to break that pattern, of course
Marie: Yeah,
Victoria: of course, we're still going to have that automatic reaction. Um, as long as we literally stop ourselves, even if we don't, there's still a chance to repair it. But if we can try to stop ourselves from verbalizing that reaction, then that's a good first step.
Marie: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think it's great that we recognize like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Like, at least you have that in your head. Like you're, you're thinking all I have
Erika: in
Marie: life.
Erika: We should not be doing that. I'm a big overthinker.
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. I have to just not say anything. Like I'll make a face or I'll, I'll grunt, but I'm my first step for myself at least was just, just don't say anything.
Don't give a verbal reaction because it, They pick up on it, even if they're having their moment, they'll hear that. So I want to try to at least stop that first thing. And then [00:11:00] if I need time to figure out how I want to respond, I give myself time. Even if I have to kind of step away and quiet scream in the bathroom.
Marie: Well, I think I'm, I'm assuming as, as you, I mean, from toddler to, I mean, cause I don't know infant wise how that would work, but you know, but through the ages, obviously I had to change how I parent my children as they grew. Right. I'm in the teenager and I can have more in depth conversations, more intense conversations.
They can open up when they feel like it. And it's different hours of the day that they're willing to talk now. Like I have to be available sometimes at 11 o'clock at night when my son's ready to just Talk it out. I'm like you're this at eight like at dinner like this is this is ridiculous Like it's we're going to bed his but I have he has all this stuff that he wants to share about his day And I'm like, you know, but I'm not gonna get this very often.
So I better let's listen
Yeah, you know
Marie: or hear what he has to say in So it changes right it changes between the stages of life that your child's in how [00:12:00] you do things
Victoria: hundred percent Yeah, yeah, because we have to be aware of what Stage of like cognitive development that they're in what they're able to understand and what matters to them, too So that's a good point that you brought up is how it does evolve which is also another reason why it's important for us to be patient and graceful with ourselves or gracious with ourselves because We're probably gonna fumble through all of this quite a bit So we need to be like self forgiving along the way as we try to figure this out But gentle parenting should probably include like a little parentheses Gentle with their feelings parenting.
Erika: I see
Victoria: it's not gentle with How you discipline or gentle with the actions you decide to take necessarily, but it's more just keeping at the front of your awareness What it is that they're feeling and always letting them know that it it's gonna matter to you Cross the board no matter what you have going on
Erika: Yeah, kind of like it's okay to feel your feelings like let them know that yeah Even if you don't know why they're feeling those feelings or you don't [00:13:00] agree with their feelings.
Yeah It's okay to disagree
Marie: with it. You just have to be aware That they are feeling something.
Erika: Okay. Well, I think I do
Marie: a little bit of that.
Erika: So then maybe I do more gentle pain. You might do that. Yeah. Yeah. You pat yourself on the back. Um, so why do you feel like there's this like big misconception?
Because like I said, you just see these kids like running wild and the parents just being like, it's okay. And it's like, it's not okay. Like you have to say something or do something, right. I mean, to sort of at least guide them or show them. Well, I have to say, I
Marie: went, I went to an event one time and, um, it was friends from high school that I happened to see, and they had had a child and, um, it was Six ish age, maybe seven, and, um, they're She was running amok.
I mean, she was on the table. She's jumping off stuff and it was an event that it were outdoors, but it's still not appropriate to do those things. I'm like, she's going to fall on her. She's going to knock food over. Like she's running around and they're kind of like corralling her. Like, like, like, I don't know.
And they mentioned gentle parenting. I'm like, okay, put the kid in the corner. Like this is ridiculous. [00:14:00] Like this is not working. And then she wouldn't smack the dad. I'm like. That's not okay. Like you shouldn't hit like, you know, like do something in my head when she said we're talking about gentle parenting.
I'm like, oh, no We're not gonna have a good Conversation
Erika: like the extreme, but yeah,
Marie: that's called something else
Victoria: permissive
Marie: parents. I mean, they're very like, oh very I'm a hippie ish type. Like, yeah, we're just going to run and the kid's going to figure it out. No, they need guidance. They need that. It's not okay to kick people's place off the table.
Like, that's just, that's not okay. We're not doing that today. That's not all right. That's mean. Like, don't do that. So, but yeah, so that's what she said, gentle parenting. I was like, oh, no. I wouldn't say that's it. But when I, but the, they, they, the, the, the parents said, we, we gentle parenting. You should tell her not to do that.
That's
Erika: not good. So that's kind of the stuff that we might see sometimes. That's not to say all the time, but sometimes on, like, the Instagram. [00:15:00] And that's what
Marie: I pictured when we're like, uh oh. Uh
Victoria: huh. Well, sigh of relief now at this point. That's not it. Yeah, and that's probably one of the The thing about social media, I have a love hate relationship with it, and one of the risks of it is how Like therapy speak can sometimes be tossed around mentally and like boundaries being one of the big ones over the past several years and Dental parenting is one of them where it's it's being spread around and I like the awareness aspect of it But we have to be careful Disinforming.
Yes. One another about what it really means. So it's gentle with the emotions, it doesn't have to mean gentle with your, with your actions as a parent. Of course, kids need structure, they need boundaries and guardrails to figure out how to grow into pretty decent adults. So like, teaching them that, you know, when we're at an event like this, bud, be gentle.
Maybe we don't do that. We're not at home.
Marie: Well, even at home, don't kick my plate off the table. Like, that's [00:16:00] not a good thing. But I mean, even other mammals, right, do parenting where they'll, you know, like, um, I, I watch the Instagrams. So a lot of dog stuff comes on my feed for some reason. But it's showing where, like, we have a lot of dog trainers, like where they'll let, um, maybe the alpha dog or someone correct the behavior of the puppy, right?
And it looks mean, it sounds mean, because I'm like, oh my god, it's going to bite his head off, but it doesn't. It just calms them down like, hey, that that behavior is not okay. And then the puppy's fine, right? So there are behaviors where you're correcting inappropriate behavior, um, in all aspects. So like just letting a kid run amok because you don't want to hurt their feelings or they don't like that.
It's not, that's not gentle parenting. So it's with their feelings. Got it. Yes,
Victoria: so you can be firm. And you can say, uh uh, I'm not going to let you do that, I'm going to bring you over here, we're going to talk about it. And they're throwing a tantrum, they're crying. You as the parent, as applying gentle parenting, have to do your best to keep yourself [00:17:00] calm and grounded and focused on them.
What I sometimes see parents do is take it to the other extreme and they lay the hammer down and they yell or they will Hopefully, I don't see this very much anymore. But back in the day there was a lot of smacking Just being way too firm about it way way too authoritarian about their approach with So
Marie: I have to say that's what I grew like I couldn't like it was a it was a it was a back It was a backhand like it smacked My mom loved smacking in the mouth like if you were and she called it talking back I'm like, why not i'm just talking to you I'm talking back like it wasn't that and that's just her reaction as I grew to become an adult.
I realized She she suffered from depression. She suffered from other things. She wasn't ever feeling good. So I think Her, uh, her frustration with me as I became a teenager wasn't so much me, it was what she was feeling just in general. Like, and whatever I did in the circumstance, in that situation, just, she's like, I'm [00:18:00] done.
Whack! You know? So it was that. So it was, and I don't think she ever mentioned it. As I grew older, we had those talks. We were able to sit down, but she couldn't handle it at that time when I was, as a child.
Victoria: And we understand that now as adults, but what that leaves us with is our own stuff to now heal and recover from because of all those experiences.
So as hard as it may be in situations where your child is really acting out and really expressing a lot of big emotion I feel it too. I get my I feel myself like my chest is tightening. I'm getting agitated I really feel the urge to raise my voice back at them and tell them to just stop and just listen to me But gentle parenting guides us away from that and instead because children learn from model behavior.
They learn from learning how Handle situations. So if we want to teach them that when they're having big feelings, we don't we we it doesn't help to Just like let like let it all out and and go go crazy We have to figure out how to [00:19:00] bring ourself back to center and how to calm our nervous system So we do that by showing that to them in that moment.
We show them. Hey, I'm calm I know, I know you're feeling a lot, but I'm calm. I see what you're feeling. You must be tired. You must be hungry. I understand why that's making you feel that way. Let's take some deep breaths together. Let's look at this color book or or something to kind of help them first regulate those emotions and then we talk to them about what's going on and what's best for them to think about and try to do in this situation.
Marie: I, I think, I don't feel like I do a lot of that. No, I think it's starting to take back what I said before. I don't think I do any of that. But, you know, I was thinking about it, like, Growing up, I was trying to think, did my mom ever say, Hey, just get over it? She did. Like, when you're at school, kids can be mean.
And, you know, and maybe your kid's going through something, And they've been bullied a little bit, or they've been made fun of, And they come home, and they're not in their best spirit, And they're not paying attention, and they're doing stuff they're not supposed to do. Whatever the case is, [00:20:00] because, They themself have a stressful day as well and I forget that as a parent like I was I was so frustrated with my youngest He just does think he doesn't think things through sometimes and I have to remember he I mean, he's in high school But he gets to school by 7 o'clock in the morning.
He doesn't get home till after 8 o'clock at night That's a long day for anybody. Oh just in general like He got home and I can't remember what it was now, but he did something. I'm like, can't you just like, remember? Like, I don't understand why this is so hard and you don't have to do chores. You don't have to do this and you don't have to do that.
And I'm like, wait, he just had a 13 hour day, like nonstop, you know, even though he has some of it's, you know, his sports and whatever, but it's still a very long day. Just like if I come home and I've worked at, you know, 12 hour shift or 13 hour shift, whatever. I'm tired and I don't want to be bothered. So I have to give him a little bit of grace.
And I had to step back and like, think about him. Like, you know what? I went into it and I'm like, Hey, look, I'm sorry, buddy. Sorry. I got upset. I, I, you had a long day as well, you know? So, yeah, that's hard. That's hard as a [00:21:00] parent to say, I'm sorry, I was
Victoria: wrong. Oh yeah. Yeah. Especially since it wasn't very, um, I guess it wasn't very, um, what's the word?
Normal. Yes. Yes. It wasn't very normalized when we were coming up. I don't know if like older generation parents thought that that was like a sign of weakness or that they just didn't owe it to their kids. I don't know. But it's really important that we teach them that. I
Marie: didn't think about it. I don't think my mom meant to be cruel or meant to be harsh.
Just, that's what she knew and didn't know any different. Yeah. And as, now that we just have more available, you know, we just, at the time you always think that, you know, a kid's life is easy. It's not. They have a lot of stress on them. They have to think about, are they safe? Yeah. What's gonna happen? Who's gonna do what?
You know, there's a lot of things that are happening in the world that we forget they, they know about. Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah, and that we can't relate to
Marie: no, we didn't have that that much
Victoria: exposure to the world when we're coming up We were kind of like our bubble was this [00:22:00] big and now their bubble is like
Marie: well social media if they have access to social media They're old enough to do that.
Then they know news stuff that goes on that maybe as us kids I mean if we didn't listen to the news, we didn't know what's going on Yeah, you know
Erika: are those the kind of conversations that you often have with your mom? Patients, you know who are? You talk about social media and you know how it's affecting the family and different things like that.
Victoria: Mm hmm yeah, we do touch on that from from time to time and the the bigger worry is Not so much like that. They are on social media But what they can do like how do they even talk to them their kids about what they're exposed to like or currently? the the ice agents possibly Schools and like students are talking to each other about it and kind of like joking around and making light about it But then there are some students who are genuinely worried and scared Yeah, and so parents are just so lost about how to even have that conversation with their kids.
[00:23:00] So that's a big one Um, but going back to the saying, sorry, um, with gentle parenting, even if we have a slip up, like we have a day where we're just like, I'm not having it. I can't do this gentle parenting crap. I'm just going to let it out.
Marie: You're grounded for life. Just ground it. You ungrateful.
Victoria: Yeah. Um, we can still come back and repair that and that still counts.
So much, um, in the world of gentle parenting where we come back and we say, Hey, what I did back there, that was really, that was really wrong with me. I shouldn't have said that I shouldn't have reacted that way. My emotions got the best of me. You can explain to them that or actually demonstrate to them that even as an adult, We still make mistakes, and that's okay.
We can come back and apologize for our mistakes, and try to repair the damage it may have caused in the relationship. Um, because we don't want them to think, I kind of got this when I was younger too, was that when you're an adult, or the way that I was being raised, it's like, you're [00:24:00] expected to just handle things on your own.
Um, I never really saw too many arguments taking place. Like, they almost, it felt like it just didn't exist. Yeah. Uh, between two parents. Um, so I had this image of like, these types of emotions or these types of reactions should not be happening. Why am I still feeling these as an adult now? Like, why, why do I get this way?
Like, blaming myself. Let me try
Marie: to understand. Are you saying that because you didn't maybe see the parents have disagreements in talk? And as, as an adult, you're like, why am I frustrated with my spouse or my partner
Victoria: and I don't
Marie: know how to deal with
Victoria: it. Yes, exactly. And I get where they were coming from.
They just didn't want the kids to see them arguing. They felt like it was a private thing and I understand that, but what that left me with was, so how do I do this then?
Erika: Oh, that's interesting. I grew up in a very opposite situation where there was a lot of [00:25:00] arguing. Okay. Um, and so I think because of that, me and my spouse Try not to fight in front of the kids at all.
But it sounds like that's maybe not the right thing either. There's a middle ground.
Marie: Yeah, I'm assuming there's some kind of middle ground. Roger and I, I came from, my mom and I would argue, um, a lot. I mean, I don't think inappropriately, but, you know, they would disagree. Um, Roger, his dad left when he was three, so he didn't have, but he, very, very, um, dominating mom.
So, uh, that was something, and I remembered when we first got married, I'm like, we both can't be drama queens. Like, one of us has to like, be able to calm down, like, hone it in, you know, in order to have conversations. So we've tried, and there's times we messed up, and I, in front of the boys, I'm like, I am frustrated with dad.
I, I, I'm gonna take a break. I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk around the block, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, walk outside or whatever the case is. And we've, we've figured out how to, I'm sorry in front of them, so they can see, they have seen that.
Victoria: Yeah, it might seem taboo, but it's so important for our kids to get to observe that.
I never thought of it that way, but
Marie: I've never thought about making sure they [00:26:00] see us Resolve a problem. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria: Exactly. I mean, there's fair fighting rules. We don't want to see them, we don't want to show them name calling. Sure. Or like low blows. Yes. Or, you know, anything unhealthy like that.
But it, it, there is value in them getting to see that, first of all, disagreements can continue to happen in a marriage. For the rest of our life or any relationship really and when they do happen, there's a healthy way to go about it So going back to the arguments though and allowing them to observe how a healthy argument can go down With two people in a relationship That takes it back again to the foundation of it all which is to show them that emotions matter They deserve our time and they deserve to have the space that they need even if they're unpleasant emotions Because those should not be scary things to confront.
Got it
Marie: Well, you know the thing, I am not the most, um, affectionate of parents or spouses, like I'm, I've, not that I'm uncomfortable, I mean, to me it's private, like, you know, [00:27:00] showing affection to my husband has always been a private thing, I'm not one to hold hands and stuff like that, but as the boys have gotten older, I do want them to see a healthy relationship and what that looks like.
So I have to, I have to, cause it's not my personality. I have to make a conscious effort to show them like, Hey, I like it when dad holds my hand or puts his hand, you know, arm around my back, you know, whatever the case is or we kiss each other when we leave. Just because, um, I want them, I mean, I love, I love my relationship with my husband.
So I want them to have, have that in the future. So I want them to see what that looks like. Cause I've seen family members I've seen on the people where they've not seen a healthy. Relationship and how that works and they don't and as an adult they don't know what to do They don't know what a healthy marriage looks like.
Victoria: Yeah, so it comes with the good of course, we love showing them the good side of it, but it also comes with the hard side of it and Again, we don't want them to grow up being scared of feeling these emotions that are unpleasant [00:28:00] but also confronting the unpleasant With people who yeah So, if we still struggle within ourselves to confront our own unpleasant emotions for whatever reason, um, then that's something for us as moms to also work on, or parents in general to work on.
And some good ways to kind of point out which ones are still difficult for you are the moments where you feel triggered by what your kids are doing. What is it making you feel? Why is it making you feel that way and where does that come from?
Erika: Oh, so like looking inward at like what is bothering you?
Marie: I have a hard time telling the boys like I I get very nervous with social media one minute.
I'm like, yeah, I trust you You're good next minute. No, I'm gonna put a time limit. No, you know, I don't want you like I go I threw waves like your stages where I feel okay, those are teenagers and I'm trying to give them Some, some boundaries, obviously, but also allow them to figure things out.
Yeah, but I
Marie: struggle with that so much because I want to give them the freedom, but then I'm [00:29:00] so scared.
Um, it's just it's it's a lot but I had I had a conversation with him like look I'm not trying to be crazy like I when I'm like, I'm scared as a parent because I don't know
Yeah,
Marie: like I my the feeling I'm feeling as I'm scared So please bear with me. I'm trying to figure this out as we go. There's gonna be days.
This is okay And there might be days it's not and I'll let you know Yeah, because I it's only I can explain to them and they I they understood they're like, okay mom I get it. Like I'm not trying to be mean. I'm not trying to not give you your freedom I'm just scared
Victoria: and they're so capable of understanding.
Yeah, we don't give them enough credit sometimes Even if they're as little as two or three years old, they can understand a lot. Just try to explain things to them But that was a great example, too, of how you recognize that you're feeling scared about giving them freedom. You're trying,
Marie: trying. Yeah. Yeah.
It stay, and it's the, where my boys go to school. It's, it's downtown. So it's not like, and I didn't know, I dunno why I thought this when [00:30:00] they went to high school, they can leave campus if they're there. Like, you know, they, they, they're, they're allowed to do that. And downtown, it's not like a, there, there's a lot of, um, homeless people in the area.
And not that they're bad, it's just that I'm nervous as a parent, I'm like, Hey, my, my youngest son call actually called me yesterday and he goes, Hey, can I walk over to the Pearl? Um, before practice. I'm like, why? And he's like, because I'm like, no, I'm not good with that. He's like, well, mom, I'm going to go with something.
You know what? No, we've, we've had this con. I'm not comfortable with you out off campus. So this is wait for practice.
Victoria: Yeah. And you can even add like, I'm sorry if that upsets you. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Marie: He wanted to walk around the Pearl, and I just, nope, and I had, I stayed firm, I said I love you, and I said I know this makes you annoyed, and I said I'm sorry to annoy you, I said this is mom's rule, and you're gonna have to deal.
He's like, alright, talk to you later. And we hung up. But I said thank you for asking though, I appreciate you asking before [00:31:00] doing.
Victoria: And you know what too, something that just came to my mind is, Something like that, even though you explained it, and it was a good conversation, um, they might still be annoyed, even hours later.
Yes. About that, and they are allowed to stay annoyed if they want to. And what sometimes a lot of parents do is like, why are you still annoyed? Like, stop being annoyed, like, be happy again. Oh my gosh, this is me,
Marie: this
Victoria: is me.
Marie: It's Roger. Roger would get so mad, like, I told you to blah blah blah, and they're doing the thing.
But he wants them to do the chore, whatever it was, happy. Like, why would they be happy? They're in trouble. Let them, they can be mad, as long as they do what you want them to do. Let them be mad. But I think I don't I was gentle parenting. Yes, good job.
Erika: I think I don't, I have to get better at sitting in my own I guess discomfort, you know, it makes me uncomfortable when they are uncomfortable or like when they are upset I get uncomfortable and so I don't want to sit like that because it makes me just want to crawl out of my skin Yeah, I'm like, why are you still mad or like, you know, whatever's going on?
I'm [00:32:00] like, why do you feel this way? And so then that just makes it worse. Oh,
Marie: don't show them that don't get it
Erika: Yeah So, um, that's me though. I'm the person that is like that. So
Victoria: that's a moment where you notice that you're, something's triggering that emotion. Yeah. And so digging in and figuring why is their discomfort making me uncomfortable?
Yeah. Why am I trying to push them out of that emotion when they're not ready?
Erika: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, well, I think it was because growing up, I was always like the peacemaker of the house. Mm hmm. And so like, I would be the one to kind of try to problem solve, I feel like. Um, and so when I can't get that resolution and when everybody's not like back to like their normal regulations, it bothers me until we are there, you know?
It's like your job's
Victoria: not done.
Marie: You're not doing it right. I don't like it when the boys are mad or upset or hurt. We don't want our kids to feel negative emotions. Sure. As life, they're going to, and they have to figure that out and feel it. But I, so I had to stop myself, like, because Roger would get so [00:33:00] mad at them, even angrier, when they're doing the thing he would want, and they would be mad about it.
And rightfully, they didn't want to do it, and so you don't have to do it happy, just do it.
Erika: Yeah. Yeah,
Marie: but it was hard to walk and watch. I'm like, oh, I kind of felt bad, but nope, I'm not feeling bad. Like,
Victoria: do chores or
Marie: whatever it was, do it.
Victoria: Yeah, definitely, because it teaches them that they are allowed to have that emotion.
like it. Yeah, they've got the space as long as they need it to work through that emotion. Like, in, in our home, you are free and secure enough and safe enough to feel whatever you're feeling, and I'm not gonna judge you for criticizing that as a parent. Uh, or make you feel dismissed, or make you feel like it's wrong to have that emotion, like it's upsetting everyone around you without being so angry, you know?
Um, so it's hard because I'm, I was like that too growing up. Yeah. Um, kind of like, can everyone stop fighting? What can I do to help? Yeah. And, um, so sometimes I noticed I would do that with my daughter too. Especially when she was like a baby. She'd [00:34:00] start crying about something and I would try to Quickly as I could to distract her with something so she could start laughing again or smiling again.
I
Marie: think that's what people did. Here's a screen. Like, they would hand the, the tablet and not let them feel if they were, like, you know, I remember, um, at the grocery store when the boys were little, like, I would get Nervous if they tried to cry or have an episode or what I'm like and I was by myself I'm like, oh there's two of them.
What do I do? And I would go here here, you know, here's something to distract you whatever but if for whatever reason it's okay If they're upset like but the screens were a big thing like to keep your kid from crying. Oh, here's your tablet Oh, here's your thing. So then they felt like they always needed that thing.
Erika: Yeah,
Marie: it's like a pacifier.
Victoria: Yes. Yeah Like, to suit them, but we do that sort of instinctually because we're dysregulated. So we feel like if I can get them to regulate their emotions and be calm again, then I can be calm again. But really it has to work the other way around.
Yeah.
Victoria: We have to first regulate our own nervous [00:35:00] system and our own emotions, and then we can help them by showing them, look, I did it for myself, let me help you, let me guide you.
Yeah.
Erika: Yeah. So do you have like tips for the moms who. Maybe you want to do more gentle parenting, um, themselves, like how would you suggest somebody starts doing that or like what would you suggest they do?
Victoria: Um, well what not to do is look at Instagram reels.
Erika: Yes! We won't type in gentle parenting.
Victoria: I, there are two people, um, like psychologists who are very, um, like they've sort of paved the way on, on this topic.
Um, that I always recommend. One is Dr. Shefali. I don't know her first name. Dr. Shefali. She's, she's so insightful and so intelligent about the topic of parenting and the different challenges that we face as parents. How modern parents can kind of pave new ways. Um, and then Dr. Becky Kennedy is another really great resource.
And she offers workshops on her website [00:36:00] where you can kind of sign up and go through your own, like, self paced training on how to do some of the self exploration and apply new strategies. So those two, um, are great resources that I always recommend. They're solid. They're vetted. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and their social medias are okay.
Marie: Yeah. And look at theirs.
Victoria: Yes. Yeah. Definitely look at theirs. The other ones are, are for fun. They're funny. But take them with a grain of salt. Um, and then it, this is one of those things that I also focus on in my practice is helping women to kind of really dig into the things that activate them and where that comes from and maybe start the journey on healing from those things so that they can, um, find a way to make the shift within themselves behaviorally.
Um, and get, get better control over their own responses and feelings too. Um, because the feelings might still be there. Like I said before, I still get those moments where I'm like, But, um, [00:37:00] it takes a lot of practice to, to change the behaviors that follow those feelings.
Erika: Thank
Marie: you.
Erika: Yeah, well, it's kind of, I mean, it's kind of reassuring to know that you still feel those feelings.
I think people think like therapists, like they've got it all figured out and you know, they don't, they don't go through these things anymore because, you know, yeah, but no, I mean, if she's feeling them, then it's okay that
Marie: we're feeling them. For sure. Just learning how to deal with it, you know, how we feel it.
Yeah. You did mention something I had before we started the podcast was, um, boys versus girls, right? It's okay for girls and emotions and stuff like that, but boys sometimes it's not. And you said there is a You have seen stuff. Can you kind of talk about that a little bit?
Victoria: Well, at least where I grew up and when I grew up, I noticed that with boys it looked like the only emotion they allowed themselves to express was, um, and that might have something to do with the idea of like you're a boy and you know, you gotta be a man, man up.
Um, Be macho And things like that. Like that's what is supported. [00:38:00] I really have that's my best guess cuz I'm not I'm not a guy Right, and I didn't have brothers. So this is just what I observed the community that I grew up in And so what that causes is because they still have all the other emotions They just don't know where to put them or how to deal with them because they're being discouraged from even expressing them and So down the road as you can imagine what those men end up having to deal with later in life It's still not knowing how to deal with those emotions and they'll they'll internalize a lot They are not comfortable talking openly about their feelings with hardly anybody But let alone other guys, right?
Marie: Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah, so that causes a this extreme problem with loneliness older men Because they feel so disconnected, so isolated emotionally in the world around them. And I can't imagine what that feels like. Because women, we don't, sure we [00:39:00] get lonely from time to time, but we have, more commonly, a bigger community.
And we're very comfortable talking about our feelings with each other. Yeah! So, we have, we have a better We have a better framework to work off of than men do. So I think now, anybody who's raising little boys, that's, that's a challenge to try to work with, I would say, is teaching your little boy how to be comfortable.
Erika: Yeah.
Victoria: That makes sense.
Marie: Well, like I asked the boys, like, I mean, because we're in the whole, hey, we're trying to like girls and do stuff. I'm like, well, as you know, as soon as we don't talk about that, I'm like, why not? They date. You don't ask them, like, like how to do certain things. And there's just things
Erika: that they don't like.
No, I'm good. I know. I often wonder, like even my husband, like he'll go hang out with his friends and like. You know, maybe someone's like family members on well, or like, maybe someone just had a baby or like, whatever, like, there's like life events happening. And I'm like, how are they like, how is that person?
Or like what, what's going on? And he's [00:40:00] like, I don't know. And I'm like, you were just there for five hours. You didn't say, you know, we talked about beer and sports dealers. What are you talking about? It's like, I don't know. And so like, you know, but then, but then. He will remind me, like, oh, well so and so's kids were there, and so I didn't want to ask about that thing that had happened in front of their kid, and so like, he is thinking about those things.
It's just like a
Victoria: little loss. Yeah. They don't know how to navigate it. Yeah,
Erika: and so he's like, cognizant of the fact that like, perhaps that person didn't want to discuss that in front of their child, and so he didn't want to bring it up. So like, whereas I would have been like, oh my gosh, how, how is everything going?
Yeah. I probably wouldn't have even thought about that. I just would have been like, I feel like I need to ask that question. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah, and so they think about things but just like in different ways than we do, you know,
Marie: yeah Well, and when i've asked roger like hey, what did you and frank talk about all this stuff?
Like nothing i'm like that's it like nothing in debt like okay, whatever I don't I just don't think they do they're not don't do that.
Victoria: Yeah Yeah, and my husband's a little older than I am. He's a he's a gen xer So I don't know if that generation has anything to [00:41:00] do with how he how he handles other people's emotions Um, not to throw him under the bus, he's a great guy.
But, um, But maybe y'all have experiences too, where I have my moment, where I'm feeling a lot of emotion, I'm expressing it, I'm crying, whatever, and he looks like Frozen. Like he doesn't know what yeah, we don't know
Marie: what to do. We were left alone. We were the forgotten child We were just left alone to do her own thing Gen Xers I'm right at the tail end of it and it was just you're just left to do and you just You man up whether you're female or male and you deal with it.
It was like so emotions. Like I said, I'm not as affectionate I'm not I'm a little bit. I mean,
Erika: I'm right. I'm born in 79 about to be 37 Yeah, I will say I'm a little bit like that like When other people cry, I don't know what to do. I'm like, they're there. They're there. Sorrows, sorrows, craters. It seems like things are bad.
Like, I don't know. I just like, sort of, I'm like, but like, not with everybody I would say. No, yeah. But like, with a lot of people. I [00:42:00] just, but I'm not like a cold person at all. But sometimes I just, I just don't know what to do. I think I'm, I'm almost paralyzed by like the fear of like saying the wrong thing.
And so I just say nothing and I'm like, well, you don't, you don't do with
Marie: the girls, right? Like when they're, when they're upset, emotional, you'll hug them. Okay. I have my own kids. I have my kids, but I'm not like, I love my, I love my, I love my children, but I'm not one like, you're crying, why are you crying?
Like, I will, before I hug them, I'll ask them, why are you crying? Like, before I show them affection. I just, it's my first go to. know,
Erika: what, what started this? Like, what, what happened?
Marie: You good? All right,
Erika: come here. Water is escaping your face.
Marie: What's
Erika: happening?
Marie: So, I, I feel like we just We were left to do our own thing for, there's nobody around.
Victoria: And I don't know if this is a guy thing or a Gen X thing or just a him thing, but he jumps to like, Okay, let me solve this problem for you. Yeah. Yeah, it skips over. Oh, yeah, you want a hug? I've had to guide him [00:43:00] before too. Like, can you just stop? Give me a hug and tell me that you understand why I'm sad.
Yes. Like, don't make me feel crazy. I've
Erika: heard other people say that, though, too, and I am very problem solving, and so I'm like, in my mind, as a person's, like, relaying their emotions and, like, breaking down, I'm thinking, like, okay, what can I do? Like, how can we fix this thing that's happening to this person?
And so, but sometimes people just want you, I've heard, sometimes people just want you to, like, Hear them. Yes, and just like not really give any solutions, which I don't particularly care for at all But I will do it now. I mean sometimes people just like what
Marie: I actually said that to my husband last night So I had some news about I'm in the finance world and I had a news about a loan that I've been working on for almost a year Yes, and I'm I'm on the phone and this gentleman's telling me something.
I'm like You got to be kidding me. What? Like we're almost done, like we are almost done and throw this wrench into the mix so I got off the phone and Raj was like don't say nothing, just listen and [00:44:00] I like diarrhea of the mouth going on and on and on and he's like, alright, and he walked off I'm like, well that's what I asked for, that's not quite what I wanted but that's fine Yeah, but I just needed, I didn't want him to do anything because there's nothing he could have done to make it better.
I just wanted him to listen. And I'm like, I think you understood what I said, but maybe you didn't. But at least I got it out.
Victoria: I got a response. Yes. Yeah. You made a noise.
Marie: You looked at me like,
Victoria: all right, crazy. Like, can you imagine like with, like I said before, I don't have sons. So like, can you imagine doing that for them as a mom?
Like they're word vomiting, whatever problem they've got. And instead of like helping them try to figure out how to resolve it you were like, I bet that's really tough I'm sure it's really hard for you to do this. I can't imagine doing
Marie: that. Is that what we should do? I think so. I'm learning this, that's what we should do?
Victoria: Emotions first, before anything else. So maybe like, oh that's hard.
Erika: Maybe it would be okay to be like, that seems hard for you. That's so [00:45:00] condescending though. Well, maybe not in the tone that I just said. That seems hard. Maybe not in that tone, but you say it, but like mean it. And then you can say the Solutions if they're open to hearing.
If they're ready. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm learning. I don't do that stuff.
Victoria: You can try to assume what they're feeling, but you can also invite them to let you know what they're feeling. Yeah. Are you angry? Are you embarrassed? Are you disappointed?
Marie: So for, okay, I have a question. So if you see them and this is typical, I mean, like I said, I'm in a teenager world right now.
They go after them, they don't come out. And then I'm like, I pop my, hey, you good? Yeah, I'm good. Close the door. Come back two hours later. Hey. Good, you've been kind of like, closed off. Yeah, I'm good. They're boys, definitely boys. So I'm like, um, I think that's OK. I think that's normal. But I as a as a mom, I want to like, hey, let's sit on the bed and talk.
And I'm typically not like that. But I'm craving that with them because I don't know. Is [00:46:00] it you sure things? Yeah, I'm good, mom. I'm like, OK, I've annoyed you. I'm moving on.
Yeah. But
Marie: I want to do something because I feel like there's something I should be doing. But maybe this is like I let them deal with whatever it is they're dealing with.
And when they're ready, they'll let me know. Is that the right thing to do? Yeah, well, you can
Victoria: leave it on the table. You can say, it looks like you're feeling pretty annoyed, it looks like you're feeling angry, if I'm wrong about that, you know, come let me know, but I'm here for you. You can do it verbally or you can do it written.
Kids are all about texting. Oh yeah. There is more than one avenue. Connect with them.
Erika: That's true. Sometimes it's easier to write things than it is to say them. So maybe they would write them to you. Maybe like from the other room, you'd be like, Hey, you seem upset. What's going on?
Marie: I have a sibling that doesn't drive me bananas.
Like, stop texting me emotions. Like, let's talk.
Erika: Don't text me your emotions.
Marie: What
Victoria: are you feeling? Only in emojis. And you
Erika: just write from one to five how mad you are right now. Like a survey.
Marie: [00:47:00] Whatever. Whatever it takes for our kids, honestly. Long in depth conversations in a text message. I'm like, let's just have a conversation, but that's the way they communicate.
So I've had to change how I communicate with them. If this is the way you need to hear things and that then I'll do it this way. And then it helps them process things a little better, but I had not thought about that, doing that with my children because that annoys me, but I do it for them because that's the way they need to hear how I care.
Victoria: Cause of course as a parent you want to see, okay, our job is to raise them into pretty normal adults, right? So we're kind of like hype, hyper vigilant about seeing them do things in ways that we think is like normal. So we want them to talk about their, their issues, what they've got going on. We don't want them to like, be shy and only text it to us.
That feels like, okay, are you going to do this for the rest of your life? Is that the only way you're going to handle this? But it's, it's a progressive thing. Baby steps. So if that's the only way you can [00:48:00] get them to start, then that's okay. But feelings first with anything. See your kids going through it.
Um, what are you feeling? Rather than what's going on. What's the problem?
Marie: Yeah.
Victoria: What do you feel?
Marie: Yeah. I've never said that. Not once. What's your feeling? Like what are you feeling for it? I've never done that first. All
Erika: right, that's a goal for me. I think I have, but I've Put my own like presumptions on it.
Like, you know, I'll be like, are you feeling anxious? And maybe they're not, but then now they are, but now they are, because they're like, well, I don't know. Am I, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. And so I think I'm putting my, like in my mind, I'm like, I would probably feel be feeling like this. So I try to like relate to them and maybe it's not.
So I'm instead of just asking, what are they feeling or how are they feeling? I'm putting something specific there. Thinking that that might be an easier way for them to open up. But what if that's not how they're feeling, but now they are.
Victoria: And they're free to correct you. And I tell my daughter too, I know she's only four, but I'm trying to get started early with this.[00:49:00]
I ask her, how is she feeling? And if she, nothing's coming out, I'll say, okay, well, to me, you look angry. Are you angry? And she'll like nod or do that and then I'll keep going until she gets to that place where she's so frustrated with me She's like I'm sad
Marie: now I'm mad
Victoria: Yeah, I'm like good I got something out of you.
You're sad. Okay, was it this that made you sad? And as she gets older, I'm sure she'll get better with it But that's what I'm working on is getting her to say what she's feeling not for other people to tell her how she's feeling.
Marie: When they're so little sometimes they don't know they just they're just feeling Right?
Like they, yeah. That's what I'm
Victoria: trying to, trying to teach her is about how to identify and label different feelings. That's where she's at. That
Marie: pitches the point. Just point to one. Yeah, like they do the doctors. You feel this part or like a scale?
Victoria: Yeah, that helps when they're that little. But with teenagers, they understand.
They just, they do. Encouragement.
Marie: But I think I giving them the space to do that. I don't think I've done that well. And that's something I'm going to work [00:50:00] on. Asking about the feeling versus. Like, not to jump in and problem solve for them right away. Especially if they don't ask you to. Yes. Yes, I agree.
Like, I, I want to fix it. If there's something, a teacher made them upset or a coach, you know, they didn't, they got benched or whatever. I want to fix those things. I don't want them to feel those emotions because I, they're negative in my head, but maybe that's helped them grow as well. They have to feel those things because it's
Victoria: life.
Yeah. You know. So let's say there's a conflict between siblings. They're having an issue.
Marie: Yeah,
Victoria: so now you're like, okay, what do I do? Gentle parenting approach kind of guides us to get them both to first acknowledge what one another is feeling.
Erika: Okay
Victoria: I mean we as parents we want to solve it immediately like stop fighting with each other stop hitting that's mean You're being disrespectful to one another your your sisters get along
Love each
Marie: other love them.
Victoria: Yeah. [00:51:00] Yeah, and what that tells them is again Like that, they're not allowed to disagree or have rough conflict, which isn't fair. Of course they are So we want to teach them like, okay. What are you feeling? What is your sister feeling? And then instead of saying, okay, now apologize to each other.
The idea is we say, okay, we know what one another's feeling. Now we know what got one another to feel that way. What do you want to do about it?
Erika: Yeah. And like, leave it up to them.
Victoria: Them to get there first.
Erika: Yeah.
Marie: I held it all that wrong. I did that all wrong.
Erika: Same.
Marie: Cause we had a big old blow out with the one, the one left to joke and kid around and he's always joking and the other one's extremely serious and it causes just.
Like conflicts between their role. I'm like just love each other. Let me, let me just put you in a t shirt and y'all can just hug, like just hug each other. Yeah, that doesn't work. It's like getting two cats to like each other. That does not work. And I'm like, this isn't working. It's not my plan. It's going downhill because this isn't working.
Yeah, I did it all wrong.
Victoria: And with guys, they're typically told like fight it out.
Marie: Yeah, that's
Erika: [00:52:00] what he asked to do. Give us boxing gloves, mom. But have you ever noticed, well my kids do this but I have all girls, like, and so maybe it's different, but have you ever noticed that, like, your kids will be getting after it and you're like, love each other and just be nice to each other and all that stuff and they're like, no, you know, I'm not gonna do it, and then like two minutes later they're like sitting and hanging out and like having the best time.
Yeah. I'm like, see, so they got there eventually without my interference. They can do it. Yeah. They figure it out eventually. I haven't seen that yet.
Marie: I think sisters
Victoria: are like
Erika: that though. Yeah, they're
Marie: really close in age. So in one they're about the same size. It's a little. It's a little different and you know, I, my mom put a lot of pressure on older siblings to take care of the younger, no matter what, and I, to this day, my youngest, my baby sister is like my, my third child.
I love her. I will do anything for her. I will drop everything because I was taught that. She had that pressure. Like I remember, I think I've told you this before. I remember I was a senior in high [00:53:00] school. She was going to be a freshman and we were in another high school. We were in different high schools.
Now I can recognize, I think it was a panic attack. I remember sitting in my car thinking, Oh my God, she's gonna get lost. She's not gonna know where to go. She's not gonna have any friends. And she's not at the same high school. Like, I wasn't there for her. So I, and I, I love the, the relationship I have with my siblings.
And I want my children to have that. But I'm going about it the wrong way, apparently.
Victoria: Well, no, not the wrong way. But there's a better way, definitely. It's not the gentle parenting way. Yeah, yeah.
Marie: But I think that would work if I allowed them to figure it out. And not step in and try to fix it. Yeah. Much better.
Cause they're, they're very capable of doing that.
Victoria: Yeah, exactly. So that's one of the cool things that I love about parenting to kind of takes a lot of pressure off of us as parents to do a lot of the work when you
Marie: really don't have to forget that they're, they're old enough. They, they're smart. They can figure this out and they do want that.
It's just, they have different personalities and need to understand that each of them works a little different.
Victoria: Yeah. And so the only thing for you to work on in that moment is like what's going on with yourself.
Marie: Yeah.
Victoria: How do you [00:54:00] get yourself to a more neutral or calmer state with all of that? Working on releasing the worry.
Marie: I got a takeaway tip with that. So that's what I'm going to work on. Yeah. This has been great. It's awesome. Like, Oh, I mean, cause in my head, I'm, I'm to see this child run across tables and kicking off plates. And I'm like, dental pairing does not work in my life. Like we cannot do this. Yeah. That's not definitely wrong.
No, I think it's, it's a great way of looking at stuff. If you're putting the emotion first versus strike for me and are in my situation with my children, it's me stepping back, allowing them to feel whatever there's going to feel in the, in being there to help them guide, guide them with that, not fix the problem, let them fix it on their own.
Victoria: Yeah, and letting them know I'm here for support. Yeah. You want to lean here? Mm hmm. Yeah. So, I'm here to spread the word. I love it. We love it. It's great.
Erika: Well, in saying that, um, would you share with our listeners how they can get a hold of you for all these amazing tips and services? Yeah,
Victoria: of course. Well, I do have a website.
It's RootedMamaTherapy. com where you can go and, [00:55:00] and check me out and see what services I have to offer. You can, um, click the booking link and, um, you can Request like the first appointment if you're ready to dive in or you can do a free 15 minute consult with me if you still Want to see if I'm a good fit for you You can find me on Instagram rooted mom therapy book there, too.
I'm trying to post and be more active
And they don't teach us this in school Yeah So that's where, that's where everyone can find me. All my info, my contact info is on my website.
Erika: Okay, perfect. And we'll put that in our show notes. And thank you so much for being on. We learned so much.
Victoria: so much for having me. I had so much fun talking with you
Erika: guys.
Same. And I'm also going to thank our listeners for tuning into this week's episode. of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. And we'll catch you guys next time.
Marie: See you guys next time.[00:56:00]
Erika: Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello at workingmomsofsanantonio.
com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.
